Handling a large church - An interview with Hugh Palmer

Hugh Palmer has been the Rector of Christ Church, Fulwood, in Sheffield for nine years, but will be succeeding Richard Bewes as Rector of All Souls, Langham Place, London, from January 2005.

In the first of a three-part series looking at different church situations, Jonathan Carswell speaks to Hugh about the challenges and blessings of working within a large evangelical Anglican church:

JC: Hugh, you came to Fulwood from St. Helen's, Bishopsgate. How would you say your curacy there has influenced your ministry?

HP: I learnt a lot from Dick Lucas and others about teaching the Bible and priorities in ministry, but the situation at St. Helen's is totally and utterly different from that of Fulwood. While you have professional people in both, none of the St. Helen's congregation lived in the parish apart from Dick, so at Fulwood we have a genuine parish church with a more traditional community ministry. If I wanted to visit a St. Helen's church member I would never do it without an appointment, as it would take me 20 minutes to get there, whereas here in Sheffield I can just call round. So there are many differences, but I learnt a lot.

JC: What would be the one key lesson you learned from Dick Lucas?

HP: [Long pause]ƒLots about Dick is inimitable and you would be a fool to try, but I learnt from him a confidence that the Bible does speak to today's world and we must trust it.

Ministry pressures

JC: Ministry is often exhausting; how do you cope with the pressures? And how do you keep your staff going?

HP: I don't always get the balance right, of course, but having a good, supportive wife who can give a big, heavy kick helps among many other attributes (!); but perhaps I have my eyes more on the single person when it comes to this issue. Nearly everyone in Christian ministry is well motivated; there are very few people I have come across who 'owe us' hours. Whereas the married person, sooner or later, will stop for their husband, wife, children or grandchildren, the single person doesn't have someone to stop for in the same way.

JC: In a large and busy church it is perhaps easy to become complacent; but what are some of the difficulties of 'large-church' ministry?

HP: I don't think there is much that is dependant on the size of the church, but in a large church it is probably easier to be (i) self sufficient, (ii) proud with the 'organisation', and (iii) think that there is always somebody else to do the work.

JC: What do you feel has shaped the ministry of Fulwood?

HP: I don't know the history well enough but I do know that Philip Hacking was there for 29 years before me with a gospel and parish ministry. So he will have had as his top priorities: the gospel, teaching the Word of God and people. These make a big impact, and nothing has changed in terms of priorities. God uses his Word to spur people on and uses the church family to do that too. Like any family they have their problems, but they are a great encouragement.

Big versus small

JC: You made it clear before the interview began that 'big' churches shouldn't receive special attention - perhaps understanding the challenges that large churches face would help that. What are the biggest challenges for you at Fulwood?

HP: One of the biggest challenges for a big church is to do small church. If you're going to be several hundred people when you meet it's terribly easy to never do the New Testament 'one anothers'. For example, I don't have to 'love one another' because I don't really know a person well enough to do that; I don't have to 'forgive one another', I just have to sit on the other side of the church; I don't have to 'bear one another's burdens' because how do I know that I will meet you again next week? The meeting together in large numbers can result in an impoverished Christian life, not only because of the things I won't be doing, but also because of the things that won't be done for me. If, on the other hand, I have a church family - of say 30 members - we would all know each other. One of the things that our church plant, which is about 50-strong, realised is that you know each other so well and it is actually harder to get away from each other - you have got to live with one another's burdens. It seems to me that a lot of the New Testament epistles are written to help Christians handle these issues. Now the trouble is with relationship, not systems. You can have a small group that doesn't help you relate and then you have some people who relate very well and closely with folk without being in any formal grouping.

Relationships

JC: But you would say the relationships are a key element of church growth?

HP: If I understand the New Testament, my Christian growth is concerned with both my relationship to the Lord and my relationship with his people. Those two features cannot be removed from Christian living.

JC: You have spent time in both the north and the south of England - how different are they?

HP: The cultures are certainly different. But we also have cultural divides within Sheffield - Fulwood in the west end of the city is very different from the east, and to be blind to the differences will not be terribly helpful, but both places need gospel ministry.

Spiritual hunger

JC: Would you say there is a greater spiritual hardness in the north?

HP: The Bible tells me that everyone's heart is sinful and no one seeks God. Wherever you go, you will find both a spiritual hunger, and a great blindness to the truth of the gospel. Although I live and minister in Sheffield and it is meant to be a 'Bible belt' area, 'easy' for the gospel, I find individual hearts pretty hard, as was mine. I think that to minister in some areas there are greater encouragements around, and I am well aware of the loneliness of situations that some people are ministering in. I avoid talking in terms of how hard things are, because we either fool ourselves that somewhere else is 'easy' (which is not my experience), or we despair.

JC: Finally, Hugh, how can readers of EN pray for you and Christ Church, Fulwood?

HP: Pray that we would be faithful - in our teaching, listening and obedience of God. I once heard a frightening quote from Luther which said 'most congregations don't stay faithful to the Word of God for much longer than 30 years'. This is not a great encouragement when you have taken over from someone who has preached the gospel faithfully for 29 years! So you could pray for that, and that we may stay humble, and go on serving as we ought.

Next month, Jonathan Carswell will be speaking to Phil Wells, pastor of a small evangelical church in Brighton.