A faith that counts - An interview with Joel Edwards

Joel Edwards is the General Director of the Evangelical Alliance and EN interviewed him at the EA headquarters in Kennington, London, in late July.

Joel represents evangelicals and often speaks to the media and government on a wide range of issues in that capacity.

EN: The Government has made much of supporting faith-based projects which benefit the community. How do you think that is working out?

JE: I think it is working quite positively. The government has recognised the value of faith. They have spotted that if you are serious about community you cannot ignore the cohesive nature and positive values of faith. So Christians, especially evangelicals, have to cotton on to a few home truths. Firstly, it's virtually impossible to talk to government people without them trying to nudge you in the direction of the idea that all faiths are equally valid. Secondly, government is primarily driven by pragmatism. They are not concerned about convictions; they want what works. So the great challenge to us who hold to the concept of biblical truth, is that we have to maximise the opportunity to be servants but without being seduced into compromise. That is a skill which Christian ministry has got to acquire.

Christian experience

EN: In the past evangelicals have stood for a Word-centred spirituality, with the Bible originating and shaping our experience. These days it seems to be the other way round, with experience shaping our view of the Bible. What do you think of that idea?

JE: I'm not sure it is as clear-cut as that. For example, in the Acts, the challenge to Peter as he faced the Jewish people over the question of the Gentiles included a combination of two things - the word of the Old Testament prophets, and the understanding of the Jewish law seen through Peter's experience in that dream of the sheet of animals he had on the roof. Imagine, if Peter had never had that dream; to what extent and how fast could he have understood the new thing that God was doing - even though God's intention had been revealed a long time before in the Old Testament? So I think it's not as neat and tidy as the question makes out. There's a dynamic between one's experience of God and one's understanding of objective revelation.

But having said that, I am concerned about what it means to disciple people in a postmodern world. I have a real fear that individualism, relativisation of the Scriptures, consumer 'feel-good' Christianity, is becoming the dominant feature. People who disciple from that paradigm worry me, because when their disciples disciple the next generation we could well find ourselves with a biblically-illiterate church. It may be, to some extent, that we are there already.

EN: This is a sensitive matter, and I know you are in the middle of working on it, but do you have any comment on Steve Chalke's book 'The Lost Message of Jesus' which has stirred controversy recently?

JE: Understandably, Steve's book has generated critical concerns about underplaying sin, and penal substitution as a valid model of atonement. As a prominent and influential evangelical leader, Steve's objective was to raise a debate about a Christian message which has not been heard to convey love. Consequent-ly, the Evangelical Alliance has arranged a public debate to bring together the opposing views. Through this process we want to give ample opportunity for clarity about the points Steve has raised and to reaffirm together what we believe as evangelicals.

Bringing unity?

EN: Evangelicalism has become more diverse in the last few years, with many different groups setting up in towns and colleges. What should be done to promote unity in this context?

JE: I think the first thing to do to promote unity is to recognise that the problem is not new. In the early 1990s when I first took up the job with EA there was a plethora of discussion about what it means to be an evangelical. When EA had its assembly in 1996 it was a prominent question. It led me to feel very inadequate. But then I discovered that Lord Shaftesbury asked the same question. So did Spurgeon. So it is a healthy question to revisit.

If you have too static a definition of evangelicalism you can get into trouble. You can end up, for example, ignoring all that God has been doing in the Third World, or in the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements over the last century.

We have to go back to ask what are those non-negotiable points of definition. Between David Bebbington's historical definition of evangelicalism and John Stott's more doctrinal definition there are some very sound Trinitarian historic commitments.

The definition has to be about the inspiration and authority of Scripture; it has to be about the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus; it has to be about the concept of judgement; it has to be about the place of the church as the body of Christ mandated to take the good news to the world.

And it has to be about our transforming involvement in society. It has to be about new birth - an individual's life being transformed as a result of the work of the cross. It has to be about total dependence on the work of the Holy Spirit in the church, making the Scriptures come to life.

Now there's a lot of room there for a lot of other things. And that is a challenge. At the end of the day evangelicals, as the people who bring good news, have got to be good news themselves for their communities.

So here's an important question: if we are not being good news to others, are we evangelicals?

In Britain today

EN: We live in a multi-faith, multi-cultural society. Both political correctness at one end of the spectrum and say, fundamentalist Islam at the other end seem to threaten the church in the UK. How should we handle this?

JE: Our situation is not new. If you are a Christian in Africa or Indonesia, this pressure is common.

The situation we face in Britain today is probably closer to the situation faced in the New Testament than we have experienced for 1,500 years or so. So we need to go back to Acts. After healing the crippled man Peter was hauled before the Sanhedrin to give an account of the authority through which he had done this miracle. Peter's response in Acts 4 is very informative. It provides a paradigm for ministry in a multi-cultural context.

The first thing he does is to point out that 'we are being called to account for this act of kindness shown to a cripple'. He speaks of a God who is indiscriminately kind. Secondly, he speaks of an empirical God. 'This man you see and know' has been healed. The kind of Christian commitment we need is one which meets people in their perceived needs. We should be totally unapologetic about acts of kindness in the name of Jesus. But then, thirdly, Peter goes on to say that, 'salvation is found in no one else'. This might seem intolerant. I think we must risk political incorrectness by saying in a multi-cultural society, 'Look we believe there is something so unique about Jesus and his cross that even if you find it offensive, that's where we are coming from, and that is the stream from which our acts of kindness flow'. And, within that, I think our primary task is not to call out against Islam, but rather to speak Jesus up!

EN: What is your vision for EA's future?

JE: I want EA to be a good servant to evangelicalism. I hope it can be a uniting influence rather than a compromising factor in evangelicalism. But I also hope that EA will make a long term contribution in helping our society to look again at itself, and to ask some profound questions about itself. Showing ourselves effective servants, I want to get past the prejudices to get a fair hearing for God and for Jesus.

EN: What about your relationship with Affinity?

JE: I applaud anything that brings evangelicals together. I have talked with Jonathan Stephen. I think it's courageous of Affinity to have dropped the label 'evangelical', and I understand in some ways why they could afford to do that more than EA. I hope for increasing support and complementarity between us, while at the same time being able to challenge one another as colleagues.

EN: What is your greatest encouragement at present?

JE: Evangelicalism has moved beyond a desire just to exist. I look around and see many examples of growth. There are more and more evangelicals whom God is putting in strategic places. I spoke to a group of politicians recently who said: 'We are Christians and we want our faith in Christ to count in the House'. So there is less nervousness about being evangelicals. There is more confidence. And although there is a long, long way to go, I'm fairly confident that God is at work, and it's a pleasure to be part of it!