Lord, for the years...

Bishop Timothy Dudley-Smith lives in retirement with his wife Arlette. Ordained into the Anglican church after the war, he edited Crusade magazine, was Secretary of CPAS, and became Bishop of Thetford and President of Evangelical Alliance. But he is most well-known as a hymn writer. EN had the opportunity to interview him at his home in the countryside just outside Salisbury.

Q: Could you begin by telling us how you became a Christian ?

A: It is not altogether a clear-cut story. My father ran a small school in Derbyshire. I was a pupil there and very happy. We were brought up to go to church and know Bible stories. But he died when I was 11. This really precipitated a sense of God.

He was ill for some time. But I vividly remember my mother telling me that he was not going to get better. We went away towards the end of his illness, and stayed with some family friends. The father there had the difficult job of telling me that my father had died.

Of course, I had prayed when I knew he was ill and you might think that my prayers not altering the situation would have put me off. But it didn't. It introduced me to my need of a heavenly Father.

Q: When did you first think God was calling you into the ministry?

A: The extraordinary thing was that soon after my father's death someone at a family tea party said to me (as they did in those days), 'What are you going to be when you grow up?' I found myself replying, 'I'm going to be a parson'. It just came out. It was the first I knew of it myself!

So I went to Tonbridge School as an ordinand. The Bible was really introduced to me through Scripture Union notes while at school. Perhaps it was in those years that I truly committed my life to Christ. I went on to Pembroke College, Cambridge. I was tempted to go into schoolmastering and did a Certificate of Education there as a fourth year. I think my bishop could see me as a school chaplain. I remember opening my first education text book and reading, 'A philosophy of education implies a philosophy of life.' That year helped me to clarify my thinking. I went on to Ridley Hall and ordination.

Post-war Cambridge

Q: Could you describe for us the influence on you of those years in Cambridge?

A: In my first days at Cambridge, in October 1944, John Stott ran into me outside my college. He asked, 'Are you coming to the CICCU pre-terminal?' I said that I didn't know anything about it. So he told me and concluded, 'I shall see you there, won't I?' Then, about the venue, he said, 'You do know where Trinity Old Combination Room is? It takes just seven-and-a-half minutes from here. I'll walk you there now.' So we walked to Trinity OCR and it took seven-and-a-half minutes, of course. We returned. He picked up his bike and I had no option but to go. It was a turning-point in my life.

This was before the days of the Round Church being what it is now. We went to St. Paul's to church. Basil Atkinson would read the lessons.

I was in Cambridge during the time of the two university missions led by the American, Donald Barnhouse. I remember the seriousness, a packed church, him preaching on sin and his graphic gestures as he picked up and consigned to destruction, 'One poor sinner, another poor sinner MA, another poor sinner DD!' That very much upset the professors! But undergraduates responded.

How hymn writing began

Q: How did you start writing hymns?

A: It happened quite by accident! I had always written verse. My father brought us up to love poetry. As little children, in our parents' bed in the morning before the day started, he would often recite verse to us. After I became a Christian I longed to write hymns, but didn't think I ever would because I am totally unmusical! I have, in fact, more ear than I thought at one stage. But I can't sing in tune and often change key without knowing it! I think it was her husband who said of the hymn writer Mrs. Alexander, 'Music was to her measure, not melody'. That is how it is with me.

Q: How did 'verse' become 'hymns'?

A: One day Canon Herbert Taylor, who was working with others on the new Anglican Hymnbook in the 1960s, said to me, 'You like verse. We're looking for new hymns. Have you written any hymns?' I hadn't. He said, 'Have you written any verse that might make a hymn?' 'Now you ask', I replied, 'the other day I did write a metrical version of the Magnificat based on the New English Bible.' I had been editing Crusade, and I had been given a review copy of the NEB New Testament. Reading it, I had seen that their version of Mary's Song begins, 'Tell out, my soul, the greatness of the Lord'. I said to myself, 'that's verse', and wrote up four short verses. So I showed this to Herbert Taylor and to my surprise he said, 'Yes, we like that', and went on to suggest themes for two more hymns.

Q: So, 'Tell out, my soul' was your first hymn?

A: Yes, it was really. They introduced the Anglican Hymnbook at the Islington Conference. I could not be there as I had just had my appendix out. How thankful I was! They set 'Tell out, my soul' to a tune which made it quite unsingable. I heard the recording and it was just too embarrassing for words! Fortunately, they had added, in small print, the alternative tune 'Woodlands'. It took off from there.

Why hymns are important

Q: What, would you say, is the importance of hymns to the church?

A: I think they are extremely important. Many people learn more theology from hymns than from anywhere else. They stay in the memory. They provide a corporate participation in a unique way, enabling an expression of praise, penitence, commitment and a whole range of things together. Also, I think, for many people, the hymn offers the chance to express emotions which are in their hearts, but which they would find difficulty in articulating themselves. Our best hymns do that.

In the past I submitted all my texts to Derek Kidner for comment. He has been such a help. He is a writer, a Hebrew scholar and a top class musician with impeccable taste.

Q: Do you have a favourite hymn writer yourself?

A: Oh, Charles Wesley! I have the 13 volumes of the Wesleys' poetical works. I was asked by SPCK to do a little anthology of his hymns for his bicentennial. While I admired him before, that got me deeply into him. If I had to choose a favourite hymn it would be 'Forth in Thy name, O Lord, I go, my daily labour to pursue'. I often finish my own daily prayers with that hymn.

Q: Do you ever go to a service and see a hymn which makes you cringe?

A: Yes, constantly! What makes me cringe is usually lack of technique. I cringe when people rhyme 'sin' with 'king'. I cringe at undue repetition and banal phraseology. I cringe also when hymns contain doctrinal ideas with which I do not agree. But generally I try to put the best construction on a hymn writer's words.

Q: Is your hymn-writing more through inspiration or perspiration?

A: It has got to be both. Until retirement I did most hymn writing on holiday in Cornwall. Through the year I would note themes and first lines in a notebook. In August I would set myself to write each morning. I would take Arlette a tray of breakfast and the children would amuse themselves and I would try to write from 8.30 until 11.00 am, when we went to the beach. I find you have to be prepared for two lines from a couple of hours' work, and on subsequent review to scrap them! Sometimes I am asked to write hymns for special occasions. I do not say 'I will', but 'I will try'.

Christmas, and the future

Q: Which of your own hymns is your favourite ?

A: I would always like to say, 'My last one'! However, I do have a favourite class of hymns and those are the ones I have written for Christmas. I try to write one every year for our family Christmas card, and I have over 30 now. I have wondered whether I will run out of things to say about Christmas, but somehow I feel I usually manage to say something a little different. This year's Christmas hymn goes to the tune usually sung to George Herbert's 'King of Glory, King of Peace' (Gwalchmai).

Q: In your retirement you are also writing a biography of John Stott. How is that going ?

A: It was not my idea. I was specifically asked to do this by a group of people around John. We have put down some ground rules. He has made all his papers available to me and we have had endless personal talks. It has taken me five or six years to write up the first four decades of his life. It is a fascinating task. I have had to reread all he has done. It will be published, God willing, in about five years' time, though possibly a first volume might come out sooner.

Esme Shirt

Timothy Dudley-Smith's four books of hymns Lift Every Heart, Songs of Deliverance, A Voice of Singing and Great is the Glory are in print and obtainable in the UK through Stainer & Bell. There is also an excellent selection of Timothy's hymns performed by the All Soul's Choir and Orchestra available on a Kingsway CD in The Hymn Makers series.

Interview with Timothy Dudley-Smith